Prior to purchasing the 1980 TR7 with 711 miles in advertised "as new" condition from Great Lakes Classic Cars on 12/20/13. I had at least 6 phone conversations going over ever aspect of the car with the owner Engels. I specifically told him I can not drive up and see it, being I am disabled. It was clearly emphasized in each phone conversation, no projects! For the price I was willing to pay him, he assured me the car needed nothing other than to be driven. He stated his shop had been completely through the car. On 6 separate occasions i asked him if there was rust in the gas tank. I told him to inspect it to make sure. He said they flushed it twice and it was good. I asked him if the car was 100% original. Is the paint original? Has any paint work been done? Are the brakes good? Does everything function properly? Has the coolant and fluids been changed? Does it run and drive well? Again, he assured me everything was good and the car was like new.
I knew it needed tires, which I had no problem replacing once I received the car. Once I was confident that all basis were covered, I purchased the car from him. He was accommodating in storing it for me, until I could bring it down here on 14 April 2014. He stored it a little over 4 months at no cost. Thought all was good.
Well, when I arranged shipping, what I received was the complete opposite of what him and I discussed on the phone. We were unable to get the car running. For 30 minutes we tried. We thought it was out of gas being the gas gauge showed empty. I added 2 gallons and it overflowed into the street. The gas that came out was rancid. It turned to varnish from sitting in the tank for 25 years. They never flush it, nor inspected the gas tank. Finally after trying and trying we were able to get it up the hill to my home in 1st gear. The car made a hell of a racket because the fan clutch was shot. The driver told me he wasn't going to load the car until Engels said I was aware of that issue, which was a lie. I called him and wanted to ship it back. He out right refused. So thinking it was just a few minor items it needed, I decided to address those issues and see if he would work with me on reimbursement. I had reputable guys from the Triumph club come over and lend a hand. The carburetors that Engels told me were gone through by his shop, weren't touched in over 25 years. The vacuum pots were frozen inside the carbs.. So, now this was going to turn into a real project. Exactly what I told him I didn't want.
The gas tank was drained. Over 12 gallons of varnish I had to dispose of at the county recycling center 40 minutes away. Cost me $80 in gas cans. The tank had 1 1/2" of rust and crud in the bottom of it. The fuel sendor was rotted away. The entire fuel system had to be replaced. New gas tank, new hard fuel lines, new fuel pump, emmission canisters, carbs rebuilt, etc.. Everything in contact with that fuel was ruined, including the cylinder head which I'll get to later. New auto choke had to be sourced. Original was not rebuildable. Next, the coolant system which I asked about and he told me it was good. Yes they flushed it and added in new. The radiator was garbage and I had to get recored. It was completely clogged with white oxidation. It looked like it was pulled from a junk yard, and certainly was not the one that was original to a 700 mile car that needed nothing. The thermostat that he told he replaced, was original to the car. He lied about that. All the hard coolant pipes, to include the intake manifold had to get boiled out. Every coolant line replaced, heater core flushed, etc.. Are the brakes good? He said they went through them. Another lie. All they did was suck out fluid from the reservoir and add in new. The rear drum cylinders were seized from rust. The front caliper lines and calipers were clogged with brown syrup. The rear cylinders had to be replaced, the calipers rebuilt, the lines replaced, and the master cylinder rebuilt because it started leaking brake fluid. The hard lines had to be flushed numerous time to clear out the old crud. Is the clutch good and how does it shift? Works great! We changed the fluid. After driving the car up the hill, the clutch master started leaking too. I noticed this later when the paint on the pedal assembly was bubbling off. The clutch slave was seized. So now the clutch master, slave cylinder, and line all had to be replaced with new. Also there were no shift bushings left. They dry rotted away due to age. Trans and rear fluid replaced? Yes we did all the fluids. Another lie. The rear differential was never opened. The trans fluid was also never touched by his shop. The shocks, struts and springs had to be replaced. Both of the fronts were shot when it arrived. I asked about the shocks and he told me they were good. And, the list goes on and on. Everything that was suppose to be done to this car, wasn't.
Now, once I thought it was all done and ready to drive, the car wouldn't stay running. We did a compression and leak down test only to find out the number 2 intake valve was bent. That means, everything that was just redone and put back on the motor had to come off again, including the radiator. We had to pull the head and send it out to repair. Once we got all done with that, I had to send the car up to a British car specialist to get it running properly. It's close to as new now, but certainly wasn't when he sold it to me. If this isn't out right fraud I don't know what is. I have his original advertisement, photos, receipts, witness, etc.. to back up my claim against him. Now for the part that really aggravates me. I asked if the car was 100% original. He said it was. Guess what? It's not. The car called for a tan interior. It was swapped out to a red tartan at some point. He claims the original owner purchased it this way back in 1981. Can I really believe what he tells me? The paint was mostly original. However, at some point the factory decals were removed and the car was buffed, polished, and sprayed with clear coat futher ruining it's originality. Then, new labels were applied over the clear coat. If this wasn't bad enough, they sprayed the clear coat over the entire engine bay, and door jams, locking in all the dirt and grime under the clear coat. They didn't bother to wash it before shooting that. I spent 40 hours alone cleaning that coating off the original paint in the engine bay, inside of the front hood, and on every wire, nut and bolt because it was such a mess. I suspect the driver's front fender was repainted along with the panel by the gas cap. There was paint over spray/build up on both (under the clear coat). When I sent him up a coolant line with the clear on it, he didn't know what it was. He asked the owner, and conveniently he didn't recall having that done to the car. There's no way it was delivered new like that. Somebody had it done or it wouldn't of been over the original paint. Both this and the interior swap clearly diminish the cars originality and value. This isn't what he advertised, and certainly not what we discussed on the phone.
I paid him $14,500 for this car. Way over what any TR7 is worth. Why, because it was suppose to be 100% original and in need of nothing. I layed out over $7,000.00 in parts and repairs on this car. Not all of which I feel he's responsible for. Refer to the "OUTCOME" section of the complaint. Instead of having a car that was ready to drive in "as new" condition, I took me well over a year to get the car so it was in driveable condition. Due your due diligence before dealing with Great Lake Classic Cars, and make sure you get an independent inspection.
I want reimbursement in the form a check/money order to settle this matter. At this point, I feel that he should pay the total bill that it took to get this car road worthy. Being I did 90% of the labor on it, that is reducing what the bill would of been by by 50% if the car was sent to a shop to have all that required work done. He reimbursed me for $2,400 so far out of a total bill of $4.800.00 in necessary parts and repairs to bring this car to running and safe operating condition. I further want to state, that after I received the $2,400.00 from him, the car still wasn't completed. I thought that's all that was wrong with it at that point. When we went to start it, we discovered the cylinder head had a bent intake valve on the number 2 cylinder. Probably from them running 25 year old gas through the car when they intially tried to start it. The engine had 0 compression in that cylinder. This required us pulling the head and sending it out for repair. The car was then sent out to a reputable British car shop to get it running properly. This was an additional $1,000.00 above the already $4,800.00 I had to lay out. This settlement doesn't even begin to reimburse me for all the time and aggravation he has caused for grossly misrepresenting this car's condition. Refer to his Ebay Advertisement. "As new". I have his original advertisement, correspondence, witness's to include the transportation driver upon when the car was picked up at his location and shipped to my residence. The car ran so poorly, the driver didn't want to load it on his truck. Engels then blatantly lied to him saying I was aware of the cars poor running condition and broken fan clutch to assure him it was ok to ship it out in that condition. I would not of purchased the car knowing that, let alone paying $14,500.00 for it! He was given an opportunity to settle the remaining part of this matter twice, and he refused. A certified letter was mailed out to him 3 weeks ago. No response. Instead of the $1,000 I offered for final settlement with him, I now want the balance of $3,400.00 to be paid for final settlement of this complaint.
Great Lakes Classic Cars Reviews
Prior to purchasing the 1980 TR7 with 711 miles in advertised "as new" condition from Great Lakes Classic Cars on 12/20/13. I had at least 6 phone conversations going over ever aspect of the car with the owner Engels. I specifically told him I can not drive up and see it, being I am disabled. It was clearly emphasized in each phone conversation, no projects! For the price I was willing to pay him, he assured me the car needed nothing other than to be driven. He stated his shop had been completely through the car. On 6 separate occasions i asked him if there was rust in the gas tank. I told him to inspect it to make sure. He said they flushed it twice and it was good. I asked him if the car was 100% original. Is the paint original? Has any paint work been done? Are the brakes good? Does everything function properly? Has the coolant and fluids been changed? Does it run and drive well? Again, he assured me everything was good and the car was like new.
I knew it needed tires, which I had no problem replacing once I received the car. Once I was confident that all basis were covered, I purchased the car from him. He was accommodating in storing it for me, until I could bring it down here on 14 April 2014. He stored it a little over 4 months at no cost. Thought all was good.
Well, when I arranged shipping, what I received was the complete opposite of what him and I discussed on the phone. We were unable to get the car running. For 30 minutes we tried. We thought it was out of gas being the gas gauge showed empty. I added 2 gallons and it overflowed into the street. The gas that came out was rancid. It turned to varnish from sitting in the tank for 25 years. They never flush it, nor inspected the gas tank. Finally after trying and trying we were able to get it up the hill to my home in 1st gear. The car made a hell of a racket because the fan clutch was shot. The driver told me he wasn't going to load the car until Engels said I was aware of that issue, which was a lie. I called him and wanted to ship it back. He out right refused. So thinking it was just a few minor items it needed, I decided to address those issues and see if he would work with me on reimbursement. I had reputable guys from the Triumph club come over and lend a hand. The carburetors that Engels told me were gone through by his shop, weren't touched in over 25 years. The vacuum pots were frozen inside the carbs.. So, now this was going to turn into a real project. Exactly what I told him I didn't want.
The gas tank was drained. Over 12 gallons of varnish I had to dispose of at the county recycling center 40 minutes away. Cost me $80 in gas cans. The tank had 1 1/2" of rust and crud in the bottom of it. The fuel sendor was rotted away. The entire fuel system had to be replaced. New gas tank, new hard fuel lines, new fuel pump, emmission canisters, carbs rebuilt, etc.. Everything in contact with that fuel was ruined, including the cylinder head which I'll get to later. New auto choke had to be sourced. Original was not rebuildable. Next, the coolant system which I asked about and he told me it was good. Yes they flushed it and added in new. The radiator was garbage and I had to get recored. It was completely clogged with white oxidation. It looked like it was pulled from a junk yard, and certainly was not the one that was original to a 700 mile car that needed nothing. The thermostat that he told he replaced, was original to the car. He lied about that. All the hard coolant pipes, to include the intake manifold had to get boiled out. Every coolant line replaced, heater core flushed, etc.. Are the brakes good? He said they went through them. Another lie. All they did was suck out fluid from the reservoir and add in new. The rear drum cylinders were seized from rust. The front caliper lines and calipers were clogged with brown syrup. The rear cylinders had to be replaced, the calipers rebuilt, the lines replaced, and the master cylinder rebuilt because it started leaking brake fluid. The hard lines had to be flushed numerous time to clear out the old crud. Is the clutch good and how does it shift? Works great! We changed the fluid. After driving the car up the hill, the clutch master started leaking too. I noticed this later when the paint on the pedal assembly was bubbling off. The clutch slave was seized. So now the clutch master, slave cylinder, and line all had to be replaced with new. Also there were no shift bushings left. They dry rotted away due to age. Trans and rear fluid replaced? Yes we did all the fluids. Another lie. The rear differential was never opened. The trans fluid was also never touched by his shop. The shocks, struts and springs had to be replaced. Both of the fronts were shot when it arrived. I asked about the shocks and he told me they were good. And, the list goes on and on. Everything that was suppose to be done to this car, wasn't.
Now, once I thought it was all done and ready to drive, the car wouldn't stay running. We did a compression and leak down test only to find out the number 2 intake valve was bent. That means, everything that was just redone and put back on the motor had to come off again, including the radiator. We had to pull the head and send it out to repair. Once we got all done with that, I had to send the car up to a British car specialist to get it running properly. It's close to as new now, but certainly wasn't when he sold it to me. If this isn't out right fraud I don't know what is. I have his original advertisement, photos, receipts, witness, etc.. to back up my claim against him. Now for the part that really aggravates me. I asked if the car was 100% original. He said it was. Guess what? It's not. The car called for a tan interior. It was swapped out to a red tartan at some point. He claims the original owner purchased it this way back in 1981. Can I really believe what he tells me? The paint was mostly original. However, at some point the factory decals were removed and the car was buffed, polished, and sprayed with clear coat futher ruining it's originality. Then, new labels were applied over the clear coat. If this wasn't bad enough, they sprayed the clear coat over the entire engine bay, and door jams, locking in all the dirt and grime under the clear coat. They didn't bother to wash it before shooting that. I spent 40 hours alone cleaning that coating off the original paint in the engine bay, inside of the front hood, and on every wire, nut and bolt because it was such a mess. I suspect the driver's front fender was repainted along with the panel by the gas cap. There was paint over spray/build up on both (under the clear coat). When I sent him up a coolant line with the clear on it, he didn't know what it was. He asked the owner, and conveniently he didn't recall having that done to the car. There's no way it was delivered new like that. Somebody had it done or it wouldn't of been over the original paint. Both this and the interior swap clearly diminish the cars originality and value. This isn't what he advertised, and certainly not what we discussed on the phone.
I paid him $14,500 for this car. Way over what any TR7 is worth. Why, because it was suppose to be 100% original and in need of nothing. I layed out over $7,000.00 in parts and repairs on this car. Not all of which I feel he's responsible for. Refer to the "OUTCOME" section of the complaint. Instead of having a car that was ready to drive in "as new" condition, I took me well over a year to get the car so it was in driveable condition. Due your due diligence before dealing with Great Lake Classic Cars, and make sure you get an independent inspection.
I want reimbursement in the form a check/money order to settle this matter. At this point, I feel that he should pay the total bill that it took to get this car road worthy. Being I did 90% of the labor on it, that is reducing what the bill would of been by by 50% if the car was sent to a shop to have all that required work done. He reimbursed me for $2,400 so far out of a total bill of $4.800.00 in necessary parts and repairs to bring this car to running and safe operating condition. I further want to state, that after I received the $2,400.00 from him, the car still wasn't completed. I thought that's all that was wrong with it at that point. When we went to start it, we discovered the cylinder head had a bent intake valve on the number 2 cylinder. Probably from them running 25 year old gas through the car when they intially tried to start it. The engine had 0 compression in that cylinder. This required us pulling the head and sending it out for repair. The car was then sent out to a reputable British car shop to get it running properly. This was an additional $1,000.00 above the already $4,800.00 I had to lay out. This settlement doesn't even begin to reimburse me for all the time and aggravation he has caused for grossly misrepresenting this car's condition. Refer to his Ebay Advertisement. "As new". I have his original advertisement, correspondence, witness's to include the transportation driver upon when the car was picked up at his location and shipped to my residence. The car ran so poorly, the driver didn't want to load it on his truck. Engels then blatantly lied to him saying I was aware of the cars poor running condition and broken fan clutch to assure him it was ok to ship it out in that condition. I would not of purchased the car knowing that, let alone paying $14,500.00 for it! He was given an opportunity to settle the remaining part of this matter twice, and he refused. A certified letter was mailed out to him 3 weeks ago. No response. Instead of the $1,000 I offered for final settlement with him, I now want the balance of $3,400.00 to be paid for final settlement of this complaint.